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impersonasporky_rat is holding a Q&A about Southern Culture at her journal. I thought it was a pretty awesome idea, and since I brought up vegetarianism up a few posts back, I thought it'd be awesome to field questions. Anything you can think of, even the smallest questions you might have. Diet, morals, cost of food, sadness while watching Food Network because you will never eat anything featured there, the crush of social criticism against vegetarians, Cillian Murphy, anything! Note: I forgot to mention that I am a lacto-diet vegetarian, so I still eat milk products. I eat eggs technically too, but only if they are whipped into other things cause I think eggs are mostly gross.
I've been a vegetarian since I was 3 years old, by choice. At some point I realized that moo-cows, piggies, and chickies were killed to make my food, and Little Sage was really, really upset by this. For my first month of vegetarianism I literately only ate cream cheese and bagels, because my paranoid little toddler mind could not bring myself to trust anything else my parents put in front of me. I would probably not be a vegetarian today if it weren't for the support for my doctor, who was also a vegetarian and encouraged my parents to facilitate my wild whim which would surely disappear in a few months :D
Because I've been a vegetarian for 22 years now, the lifestyle is really not something I think about unless someone else asks about it, or if I'm put in a situation where my food choices are limited. I can't say that I remain a vegetarian for ethical or moral reasons - I still think it is uncool to kill animals, but most of all the sight, touch, and squelch of meat just grosses me out massively. Making chicken noodle soup for Kol last week was enough to turn my stomach.
I do believe that Americans overdo their consumption of meat as a whole, but I think there are other banners that are more important to wave, like same-sex rights and rehabilitating the educational system. This 'do what you will' attitude is common among the other vegetarians I've met. But I've had a good number of people get angry and defensive at me for simply being a vegetarian, as if my dietary choice threatened their entire way of life. Somehow 'vegetarian' equates to 'a PETA member and insane and will burn down your meat-loving family's home' in the mind of the general public, I suppose.
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Date: 2011-04-26 05:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 07:09 am (UTC)In fact, I've had the unique experience of knowing a number of male vegetarians, which is amazing since common stereotyping puts vegetarians as nearly completely a woman's fad. When I was in elementary school, the only other vegetarian in my age group was a boy in my class. I've known a few in college, both students and educators, and I work with a male vegetarian presently.
I can't admit to knowing any Korean vegetarians, or any other eastern Asian vegetarians (I am actually afraid of traveling to east Asia because I have heard such strange and horrible food stories, and I'm sure I'd just eat pre-packaged granola bars the entire time). My doctor was Asian Indian and I've known a few other vegetarians who are also Asian Indian, though they were rather reserved about their diet for the most part, and rarely talked about it. Actually, I've found that vegetarians who are so for religious reasons on the whole are not that vocal about it, perhaps because they see vegetarianism as a part of their religious identity, rather than an identity in itself.
I've met two black male vegetarians, back in Jersey City - one was a popular athlete and you wouldn't guess he was a vegetarian until you sat down and ate with him (he does mostly for health reasons), and the other was probably the most massive guy I've ever seen in my life and a devoted vegan who was passionate about educating people in the city about better dietary choices. My vegetarian co-worker is Mexican and became a vegetarian for ethical reasons, and he comes across considerable trouble with his family and friends because of it. Moreso than anyone else I've met, he struggles because his family thinks he is less of a man being a vegetarian, that it denotes him being too sensitive or weak to be a proper man of their family. Some of them believe he is deliberately slighting the way he was raised with his dietary choice.
I got shades of this "how dare you turn away from tradition" from my Italian family, where I remember an aunt getting very upset at me for refusing to eat her meatballs, but I think I got much more slack for it because I am a girl, and girls are allowed whims like that (nobody believes that a vegetarian is actually in it for the long-haul, btw. People think it is bound to wear off after a while). I don't think either of my brothers could have gotten away with vegetarianism because there is such pride attached to Italian men and their ability to cook hardy meaty meals for their families.
I do have a Sage-Theory as to why there seems to be a predominance of white vegetarians, and it does go back to culture. I've tried three times now to type it out and explain it, but it is long-winded and not making a lot of sense. BASICALLY it came down to whites having more of a freedom to present themselves as who they choose to be, while non-whites unfortunately are reminded of their not-whiteness often and forcibly identified by it, both within their cultural community and from exclusion from mainstream society. So I might be black and I might be a vegetarian, but it is harder for me to get the vegetarian part of my identity across with as much strength as a white person might, because people look at me and process my identity primarily as black.
Also, if you are already excluded from the mainstream in one way, then why would you want to risk excluding yourself from your smaller cultural community and family as well, and risk having nobody who supports your lifestyle choice?
There are probably a thousand other supporting reasons, with different reasons specifically for each ethnic group, but that general reason is the best one I can offer. I can't say any more without needing to do deeper research. On the other hand, I know there are people who have become vegetarians and to their joy and surprise, found ample support from their family groups to do so.
Now it might also be a matter of there just seeming to be more white vegetarians than other ethnicity, but that whites are the ones who have more freedom to speak out, or are more likely to be seen and heard. For all I know there are a million male Mexican vegetarians in my area, but they keep their heads down to avoid negative attention from their cultures and families. Plus, writers and celebrities are predominately white because mainstream media hasn't caught up with the actual cultural make-up of our country yet, so most of the vegetarian celebrities we know as household names will inevitably also be white.
I would agree that vegetarianism has something that correlates with a more educated lifestyle. I have no idea if that means to say vegetarians are more likely to come from families that encourage education and forming your own opinions, or if vegetarians come from people willing to challenge the information if they are given, or if vegetarians are simply more inquisitive and likely to try something new.
http://www.soton.ac.uk/mediacentre/news/2006/dec/06_138.shtml I found a report that says that people with higher IQs are more likely to be vegetarians. I prefer to believe that the study is horseshit because personally I don't like implying that better ethical/moral choices are tied to IQ, but I do have to agree with the higher socio-economic roots and higher education. It intrigues me too that they found that vegetarians aren't any richer or poorer than anyone else, despite a generally better educational start - I have observed that vegetarians aren't usually that ambitious in a strict business sense, and usually place more of their energy into education, health, and travel.
HI YOU GAVE ME A LOT TO TALK ABOUT, I HOPE SOME OF IT GAVE YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE, SOMEWHERE. I'm sorry I had not many hard-facts to give, and I'd probably have to do library research and something more substantial than Google-fu to figure it out.
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Date: 2011-04-26 07:30 am (UTC)It's hard to eat vegetarian in Korean cuisine -- not because it's all or predominantly Korean BBQ, though that's the popular conception (which would be like the Japanese eating hibachi steak every day), but because so much of it is based on a fish broth or some other meat-based stock. Even if it's not directly meat, it's often cooked with or in meat. Also vegetarianism is a very perceived-as-airy-fairy idea for a rather machismo-infused culture. But don't take my oversimplified word for it; that's just my experience.
If you are already excluded from the mainstream in one way, then why would you want to risk excluding yourself from your smaller cultural community as well, and risk having nobody who supports your lifestyle choice?
This is so true of people of ethnic minorities regarding so many subcultural things. Some of it is stuff as simple and painful as "belonging to another subculture, or being perceived to, can be seen as 'acting white' by your friends/family, and you may face racism and well-meaning condescension hanging out with white people in the same subculture." Other times it's not even voluntary -- AFAIK it sucks even harder to be an LGBT ethnic minority of any kind because then it's like, the dominant culture hates you just as much, and cares about you a little less because you're black or an immigrant or whatever, AND your family/culture may be conservative and rejecting. In other terms, it sucks.
Anyway, for the record, I do keep meaning to go veg again -- I know that sounds weaksauce, but between being on medications that impact my nutritional needs and being clueless about cooking, it's been difficult to get back on it. My personal reason for thinking vegetarianism > other diets is that I'm a pacifist by philosophy who considers the taking of life to be inherently morally wrong and acceptable only in true necessity, i.e. to protect other life, and a few years ago I realized that there's no actual magical dividing line between the sentience of humans and the sentience of other creatures.
In any case, thank you for your thoughtful reply!
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Date: 2011-04-26 07:47 am (UTC)Absolutely - it was while I was doing research on cross-cultural sexuality norms in college that I realized that this was the case for many other issues as well, even for something as slight as the books you want to read and the music you want to listen to. I wish that magically subcultures could be color-blind and accepting of all who wish to indulge in them, but not even the Internet can provide an environment so perfect.
Good luck on going vegetarian again, whenever you do so! I totally agree that sorting out your medical needs are important, because I have seen people get incredibly sick by going vegetarian at the wrong time or in the wrong way. When you do though, I would try to emphasize words like 'lifestyle' and 'philosophy' when you think about it to yourself or talk to other people, to make it feel more like it is becoming a part of your identity. 'Diet' sounds detached and temporary and rather sacrificing, and I think people hearing 'vegetarian diet' get hung up on the word diet, and are more likely to think of a fleeting attempt that isn't worth their prolonged support.
If you are doing it out of philosophy, then that should end up being deeply satisfying. I would imagine a no-meat meal will never feel like a sacrifice - hopefully it'll always feel like a good deed, and a moral relief.
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Date: 2011-04-26 07:59 am (UTC)I have a huge aversion to killing -- it's not something a lot of people guess about me, I think, given my often darker interests in writing and media, but I think the same philosophical bent that drives me to interest in stories about the bad things people do is what causes me to come to such strong moral conclusions about death and violence. (Fun fact: when I was first considering going veg, I was dating an abusive guy at the time who insisted that if I said I wanted to stop eating meat for 'ethical reasons' then I was implying he was unethical and dealing him a personal insult thereby. To which I now must say: yes, Mike, I am dealing you a personal insult, you are unethical. And not hardly because of the meat.)
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Date: 2011-04-26 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-27 01:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-27 01:14 am (UTC)